I recently talked with Meido Moore Roshi, abbot of Korinji, about koan work and The Record of Going Easy, Case 2: “Just Clarity, No Holiness.”
Meido Roshi has trained extensively in Rinzai Zen and is probably the most well-known Rinzai teacher in the West. He founded Korinji from the ground up and offers a wide-range of programming there, including frequent sesshin (seven-day intensives). In recent years, Meido Roshi has continued his own training by practicing in Shugendo, Shingon, and Tendai.
Oh, and I haven’t yet mentioned his excellent books: The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice; and Hidden Zen: Practices for Sudden Awakening and Embodied Realization.
I began the interview with the question, “Why koans?” He answered in one word: “Liberation.” And then went on from there.
Meido Roshi’s views on Rinzai koan work can also be found in his “Koan Kufu: Embodying the Koan in Rinzai Zen Practice,” in Readings of the Gateless Barrier, edited by Jimmy Yu (aka, Guo Gu), where Meido Roshi writes:
“The … use of kōans has straightforward purposes in common with all Zen practices: to dissolve the student’s obstructions, to cause the student to arrive at the awakening called kenshō (‘seeing [one’s] nature’) that is counted as the entrance gate of Zen, and subsequently to lead the student—taking awakening itself as the basis of practice—to revisit, polish, and deepen it along the path of liberation.”
I also asked him about how study in other dharma traditions has informed his Zen teaching. In part, he said (to paraphrase) that he’d found that the Zen path has ridiculously, shockingly direct pointing.
Like this koan:
Emperor Wǔ of Liáng asked Bodhidharma, “What is the highest meaning of the holy truth?”
Bodhidharma said, “Just clarity, no holiness.”
The Emperor asked, “Who is this person facing me?”
Bodhidharma said, “Don’t know.”
The Emperor was not pleased. Bodhidharma crossed the river, arrived at Shǎolín, and sat facing a wall for nine years.
While reviewing this interview, I noticed that I chuckled a lot. I could try to be more serious, although I find that more and more, chuckling just has a wonderful way of breaking through.
Thanks go to Sam Kigen for editing the video.
Meido Roshi and I will be continuing the conversation August 8-10, 2025, at Korinji with a weekend workshop that is open to all practitioners, including anyone who has received zazen instruction. The topic is about how all of Zen (and more broadly, all of the buddhadharma) is really One School.
Meido Roshi and I may talk more about koans too:
ZEN: One School, One Mind
A special practice weekend at Korinji with Dosho Port Roshi and Meido Roshi
Notes:
You’ll find my recent Ghost post here: The Single Most Important Thing to Keep in Mind When Studying Dogen Zenji
I’ll be on a summer break now for a couple weeks.
The next post from The Record of Going Easy, Case 2: “Just Clarity, No Holiness” in full,
will be posted on July 16, 2025.
Meanwhile, may you steep yourself in the deep stream of the buddhadharma
for the timeless benefit of all beings.
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