Above, you’ll find my recent interview with Shodhin Geiman Sensei, the teacher at the Chicago Zen Center, and author of Alone in a World of Wounds: A Dharmic Response to the Ills of Sentient Beings and Obstacles to Stillness: Thoughts, Hindrances, and Self-Surrender in Evagrius and the Buddha. It was reading the former book that inspired me to reach out to him.
We first exchanged some intense emails about several points in the book - and then I invited him to sit for this interview. I’m delighted that he agreed and that we have become acquainted - a like-minded dharma person is a treasure!
I began the interview by asking Shodhin Sensei about how he got into Zen. He shared about his first introductory session, saying that he:
“[…] Hated it, was in pain the whole time I was sitting, breaking into a sweat it hurt so bad. Achy legs all the way home. Then came back anyhow, and here we are.”
So I followed up, asking, “You hated it and yet you came back, how’d you understand that?”
And he responded:
“Quite frankly, I was looking for an ass-kicking. There are so many things that tell you you’re fine and tell you that you’re okay. And on some level, sure, we want to have a healthy, functional disposition to get through the day. But on the other hand, I knew that there was a lot that I didn’t know and a lot that I was bringing to the world that wasn’t terribly great. There was a recognition that I needed and wanted to be put through the paces. The structure of the practice gives us no quarter for escape.”
That spirit is something that I could very much relate to and what I see in Zen students who stick around.
Most of the interview is about this kōan, directly or indirectly:
舉
A monk asked Qīngyuán, “What is the great meaning of the buddhadharma?”
Qīngyuán said, “What is the price of Lúlíng rice?”
Which led us to talking about one of the key points from Alone in a World of Wounds: A Dharmic Response to the Ills of Sentient Beings. I draw him out on that key point, saying, “In your book, you have a powerful theme that is so congruent with the received tradition of the buddhadharma, but unknown or unpopular [in most dharma circles today], that is, that the world isn’t fixable.”
Check out Shodhin Sensei’s answer to the above - and/or buy the book. It provides an excellent foundation in the essential dharma analysis of the conundrum living beings are in - and how to resolve that conundrum.
Finally, my thanks goes to Sam Kigen for their reliable and excellent editing!
My introduction to this kōan is here:
Qīngyuán’s Price of Rice
With this post, I begin again. My purpose here on Substack is to share the received tradition of the buddhadharma with any folks who might be interested in such a thing. I haven’t turned paid subscriptions on. However, if you are inclined to offer your financial support, you can do that at
Coming soon here at Shake Out Your Sleeves and Go:
Qīngyuán’s Price of Rice in Full:
Record of Going Easy, Case 5
“The bright moon, the pure wind - everything has its share of peace”
Speaking of conundrums, here is my recent post at Vine of Obstacles Zen:
